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	Comments on: EcoRazzi: Carrots and Sticks to VO!	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Shane E		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-13300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shane E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2017 23:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-13300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It might as well read &quot;Go Vegan, except the steak.&quot;

You&#039;re giving people a &#039;pass&#039; to just consume animal products instead of putting alternatives in the actual poster.

Why not have &quot;Go Vegan, and eat awesome Vegan cheese alternatives without the cruelty&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might as well read &#8220;Go Vegan, except the steak.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re giving people a &#8216;pass&#8217; to just consume animal products instead of putting alternatives in the actual poster.</p>
<p>Why not have &#8220;Go Vegan, and eat awesome Vegan cheese alternatives without the cruelty&#8221;?</p>
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		By: Mandy smith		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-11018</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mandy smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 17:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-11018</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nothing tastes as good as a clear conscience feels.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing tastes as good as a clear conscience feels.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lori Stultz		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-10596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lori Stultz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-10596</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-10546&quot;&gt;Free Beachler&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for your support. We are on the same page!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-10546">Free Beachler</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for your support. We are on the same page!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Free Beachler		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-10546</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Free Beachler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2016 20:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-10546</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Peggy makes excellent points(!) and I feel they are complimentary, not opposing.  I&#039;ve followed a strictly vegan diet for 24+ years and I agree 110% with Norris.  Please forgive my analogy:  this is not about baby steps, it&#039;s more like driving a car.  Animal consumption isn&#039;t merely constantly rising worldwide, it&#039;s accelerating with population growth and economies of scale!  To go from accelerated consumption to full-stop (universal veganism) the human race needs to 1) stop pressing the gas; 2) apply brakes; 3) avoid losing traction while braking.  I think Norris&#039; approach meets all three criteria while others ignore #1 and/or #3.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peggy makes excellent points(!) and I feel they are complimentary, not opposing.  I&#8217;ve followed a strictly vegan diet for 24+ years and I agree 110% with Norris.  Please forgive my analogy:  this is not about baby steps, it&#8217;s more like driving a car.  Animal consumption isn&#8217;t merely constantly rising worldwide, it&#8217;s accelerating with population growth and economies of scale!  To go from accelerated consumption to full-stop (universal veganism) the human race needs to 1) stop pressing the gas; 2) apply brakes; 3) avoid losing traction while braking.  I think Norris&#8217; approach meets all three criteria while others ignore #1 and/or #3.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bri		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9982</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2016 00:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9982</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I went veg 15 yrs ago. And I liked this graphic so much that I had a print made and hung it in my office. 

People who preach an uninviting message are doing a disservice to farm animals. When I&#039;m outside the vegan bubble, I&#039;m doing everything I can to create interest to help farm animals. And without a doubt, this graphic speaks to omnivores and helps farm animals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went veg 15 yrs ago. And I liked this graphic so much that I had a print made and hung it in my office. </p>
<p>People who preach an uninviting message are doing a disservice to farm animals. When I&#8217;m outside the vegan bubble, I&#8217;m doing everything I can to create interest to help farm animals. And without a doubt, this graphic speaks to omnivores and helps farm animals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cathy Jupp		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9977</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cathy Jupp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9977</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My reaction to these arguments boils down to &quot;Do you want to be right, or do you want fewer animals to be unhappy?&quot;
The all-or-nothing approach does not work; the Vegan Outreach approach does.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My reaction to these arguments boils down to &#8220;Do you want to be right, or do you want fewer animals to be unhappy?&#8221;<br />
The all-or-nothing approach does not work; the Vegan Outreach approach does.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peggy Warren		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peggy Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Norris, if your intention was to promote vegan cheese I would say that your meme regarding this effort was at the very least very misleading and confusing – some might think it is even possible to be vegan “except for eating cheese,” which of course makes no sense at all.  Any serious animal advocate should not ever promote eating cheese or the consumption of any other animal product, and should *always* make it clear that choosing veganism is the only rational response for someone who truly cares about not causing the unnecessary suffering and death of animals. If you really meant “vegan cheese” then the meme should have stated that explicitly and left zero doubt for the viewer. 

You defend praising “baby steps” toward veganism, citing the study conducted by Faunalytics which concluded that current vegetarians and vegans were more likely to have transitioned gradually than former vegetarians and vegans. That study was flawed.  Professor Casey Taft, an internationally recognized researcher writes about this in his essay entitled “Animal Advocacy and The Scientific Method: The Humane Research Council Study.” I don’t agree with Professor Taft on some things but I do agree with him on this. Taft states, “Several recent such studies have been put forward and I’ve observed animal advocates indicate that they’ve changed their approach as a result. I caution against relying too heavily on these studies to inform advocacy because they often don’t adhere to key tenets of the scientific method and thus the conclusions we can draw from them are limited.”  

The entire article by Professor Taft may be found here:  

http://veganpublishers.com/animal-advocacy-and-the-scientific-method-the-humane-research-council-study/

We should not encourage anything less than veganism if we believe that animal exploitation is wrong. If people decide to do less we should not attack them for being immoral but we don’t need to praise them either for exploiting “just a little.” We should instead convey the clear and consistent message that using animals as a resource is wrong and that we don’t need to continue to do so. We can’t make people care about animals, but what we can do is to teach them that if they *do* care about animals then they should not, at the very least, continue to eat, wear or use them. 

Eating and using animals is something that most of us were raised to believe is as normal and necessary as breathing air. We should not condemn non-vegans as being immoral just because they aren’t vegan, but that has nothing to do with advocating consistently for veganism as what is required if we believe that animals have intrinsic worth and are not things to be used for the pleasure, amusement or convenience of human beings.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Norris, if your intention was to promote vegan cheese I would say that your meme regarding this effort was at the very least very misleading and confusing – some might think it is even possible to be vegan “except for eating cheese,” which of course makes no sense at all.  Any serious animal advocate should not ever promote eating cheese or the consumption of any other animal product, and should *always* make it clear that choosing veganism is the only rational response for someone who truly cares about not causing the unnecessary suffering and death of animals. If you really meant “vegan cheese” then the meme should have stated that explicitly and left zero doubt for the viewer. </p>
<p>You defend praising “baby steps” toward veganism, citing the study conducted by Faunalytics which concluded that current vegetarians and vegans were more likely to have transitioned gradually than former vegetarians and vegans. That study was flawed.  Professor Casey Taft, an internationally recognized researcher writes about this in his essay entitled “Animal Advocacy and The Scientific Method: The Humane Research Council Study.” I don’t agree with Professor Taft on some things but I do agree with him on this. Taft states, “Several recent such studies have been put forward and I’ve observed animal advocates indicate that they’ve changed their approach as a result. I caution against relying too heavily on these studies to inform advocacy because they often don’t adhere to key tenets of the scientific method and thus the conclusions we can draw from them are limited.”  </p>
<p>The entire article by Professor Taft may be found here:  </p>
<p><a href="http://veganpublishers.com/animal-advocacy-and-the-scientific-method-the-humane-research-council-study/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://veganpublishers.com/animal-advocacy-and-the-scientific-method-the-humane-research-council-study/</a></p>
<p>We should not encourage anything less than veganism if we believe that animal exploitation is wrong. If people decide to do less we should not attack them for being immoral but we don’t need to praise them either for exploiting “just a little.” We should instead convey the clear and consistent message that using animals as a resource is wrong and that we don’t need to continue to do so. We can’t make people care about animals, but what we can do is to teach them that if they *do* care about animals then they should not, at the very least, continue to eat, wear or use them. </p>
<p>Eating and using animals is something that most of us were raised to believe is as normal and necessary as breathing air. We should not condemn non-vegans as being immoral just because they aren’t vegan, but that has nothing to do with advocating consistently for veganism as what is required if we believe that animals have intrinsic worth and are not things to be used for the pleasure, amusement or convenience of human beings.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Balint Balasa		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9953</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Balint Balasa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2016 08:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9953</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No one could demonstrate what is inappropriate about this statement better than Prof. Gary L. Francione, who asked on his Facebook Page the following question:

&quot;...Can someone tell me how what Jack Norris of &quot;Vegan&quot; Outreach is saying here is any different from saying &quot;Okay, reject racism except for Asians&quot; in response to a claim that someone would stop being racist but *really* hated Asians?...&quot;

Needless to say that no one came up with any difference, and that is because there is none I believe. However, if anyone can prove me wrong, I would love to hear the answer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one could demonstrate what is inappropriate about this statement better than Prof. Gary L. Francione, who asked on his Facebook Page the following question:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Can someone tell me how what Jack Norris of &#8220;Vegan&#8221; Outreach is saying here is any different from saying &#8220;Okay, reject racism except for Asians&#8221; in response to a claim that someone would stop being racist but *really* hated Asians?&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Needless to say that no one came up with any difference, and that is because there is none I believe. However, if anyone can prove me wrong, I would love to hear the answer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nettie		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9951</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nettie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2016 04:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9951</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my early days as an activist, whenever people said that to me, I would tell them why they should give up cheese. It  never went well. The conversation would turn tense at that point and go downhill. So now I take the same kind of approach as Jack and the conversation goes much better.   
I let people know that it doesn&#039;t have to be all or nothing. Yes I suggest they try vegan cheeses but I encourage them to do what they can.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my early days as an activist, whenever people said that to me, I would tell them why they should give up cheese. It  never went well. The conversation would turn tense at that point and go downhill. So now I take the same kind of approach as Jack and the conversation goes much better.<br />
I let people know that it doesn&#8217;t have to be all or nothing. Yes I suggest they try vegan cheeses but I encourage them to do what they can.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Damon		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganoutreach.org/ecorazzi-carrots-and-sticks-to-vo/#comment-9949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://staging.veganoutreach.org/?p=6634#comment-9949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jack Norris how about &quot;People say ‘I’d go vegan but I can’t give up cheese.’ These people are ignoring and disregarding the unnecessary suffering and death caused by consuming cheese. They may not understand that justice for nonhumans is not about us and our wants but about the nonhuman victims of our actions. Let&#039;s educate them why veganism is a moral imperative when it comes to justice for nonhumans.&quot; I think you&#039;re now misrepresenting the criticisms yourself and certainly missing the point. 

The act of eating cheese *is* an immoral one. I wouldn&#039;t call the person immoral but we need to be clear that what they are doing, the act is. It disregards justice for the victims of this act. To approve of someone participating in the exploitation of nonhumans is to encourage such. *This is something we would never do when it comes to human social justice issues.* The position which is to essentially say &#039;if you think you can&#039;t give up cheese then don&#039;t worry about it&#039;, is plainly a speciesist one.

Any excuses that justify taking the speciesist position of not recognising justice for nonhumans, are just that, excuses. The Faunalytics &quot;studies&quot; are about as biased and flawed as you could get. But even so what matters to me is what justice actually means. It means being clear as to what is acceptable and what is not. No amount of continued exploitation of nonhumans is acceptable, especially when it&#039;s unnecessary, and that is the message which we should be sending. 

The flaws of your speciesist position are shown in the comments here by Jag. Who continues to consume an animal product and cause harm for no better reason than it tastes good and a false notion of protein. 
&#060;&#062;

Jag, please go vegan. All animal products cause unnecessary suffering and harm, you don&#039;t need greek yogurt. 

We need creative nonviolent abolitionist vegan education to explain to people that every dollar we spend on animal products is a yes vote for doing harm. We either directly participate in causing suffering and death or we reject it. If someone truly respects or cares about justice for nonhumans then they go vegan. We should never encourage or praise people for doing less because to do so is to praise and encourage exploitation. We must educate people and encourage them to go vegan, because they can and because it&#039;s the morally right thing to do. 

There are so many confused and compromised messages out there by &quot;animal people&quot; lead by the large &quot;animal groups&quot;, who rely on donations from nonvegans. The only position that currently puts justice for nonhumans first is The Abolitionist Approach - www.abolitionistapproachbook.com .

It seems that any time the donate button is present justice for nonhumans is compromised.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Norris how about &#8220;People say ‘I’d go vegan but I can’t give up cheese.’ These people are ignoring and disregarding the unnecessary suffering and death caused by consuming cheese. They may not understand that justice for nonhumans is not about us and our wants but about the nonhuman victims of our actions. Let&#8217;s educate them why veganism is a moral imperative when it comes to justice for nonhumans.&#8221; I think you&#8217;re now misrepresenting the criticisms yourself and certainly missing the point. </p>
<p>The act of eating cheese *is* an immoral one. I wouldn&#8217;t call the person immoral but we need to be clear that what they are doing, the act is. It disregards justice for the victims of this act. To approve of someone participating in the exploitation of nonhumans is to encourage such. *This is something we would never do when it comes to human social justice issues.* The position which is to essentially say &#8216;if you think you can&#8217;t give up cheese then don&#8217;t worry about it&#8217;, is plainly a speciesist one.</p>
<p>Any excuses that justify taking the speciesist position of not recognising justice for nonhumans, are just that, excuses. The Faunalytics &#8220;studies&#8221; are about as biased and flawed as you could get. But even so what matters to me is what justice actually means. It means being clear as to what is acceptable and what is not. No amount of continued exploitation of nonhumans is acceptable, especially when it&#8217;s unnecessary, and that is the message which we should be sending. </p>
<p>The flaws of your speciesist position are shown in the comments here by Jag. Who continues to consume an animal product and cause harm for no better reason than it tastes good and a false notion of protein.<br />
&lt;&gt;</p>
<p>Jag, please go vegan. All animal products cause unnecessary suffering and harm, you don&#8217;t need greek yogurt. </p>
<p>We need creative nonviolent abolitionist vegan education to explain to people that every dollar we spend on animal products is a yes vote for doing harm. We either directly participate in causing suffering and death or we reject it. If someone truly respects or cares about justice for nonhumans then they go vegan. We should never encourage or praise people for doing less because to do so is to praise and encourage exploitation. We must educate people and encourage them to go vegan, because they can and because it&#8217;s the morally right thing to do. </p>
<p>There are so many confused and compromised messages out there by &#8220;animal people&#8221; lead by the large &#8220;animal groups&#8221;, who rely on donations from nonvegans. The only position that currently puts justice for nonhumans first is The Abolitionist Approach &#8211; <a href="http://www.abolitionistapproachbook.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.abolitionistapproachbook.com</a> .</p>
<p>It seems that any time the donate button is present justice for nonhumans is compromised.</p>
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